superpijak Loc: Middle TN

Okay first off I'm going to apologize up front for posting this here, but I really prefer this smaller circle of ours.

True event:

A business acquaintance of mine shared an event that he witnessed first hand. Seems that while on a trip visiting extended family out of state, he was invited to participate in a family portrait session. The family hired a photographer just for this purpose. Well the photographer arrives and starts arranging the family members, quite routine. Then he / she pulls out an i Pad to take the images with!!!

My friend was speechless, not sure about the rest of the family. :shock:

Okay, I realize that many advances have been made in capabilities in lenses used on smart phones and i pads, but REALLY???? I really didn't think they advanced that far. Aren't they really a point n shoot wannabee?

Is it just me or do others find this repulsive?

Okay, I feel better now. (for a short time anyway)
Getting off my soap box now.

jaysnave Loc: Central Ohio

Crazy, someday maybe but not yet will an I Pad create a quality family portrait.

hlmichel Loc: New Hope, Minnesota

I've seen some nice work done with an iphone/ipad. But if I were paying someone and they pull out the pad....well someone is not getting paid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOoGjtSy7xY

bkyser Loc: Fly over country in Indiana

I hate to say it, but I think you will see more of it than less of it.

OK, now hear me out. Anyone remember how UHH blew up when Nikon introduced the red models of the D3000 and D5000, and people saying that they would never show up to a shoot with a red camera, well, a lot of us stated that it isn't the color of the camera, it is the photographer using it. There were even threads about painting the camera body. There was even a youtube video where one was painted pink.

I have read that there are apps that allow ipads to shoot raw, etc.

I also know of a few photographers that shoot everything in Auto, or in P mode. Isn't that pretty much the same as an iPad?

I highly doubt you could get much in the way of interesting light, and using flashes (slave triggers fired by the flash of the IPAD maybe?), but I've seen some pretty flat lighting with people using DSLR's

I've seen people shooting weddings with mirrorless. To the uninitiated out there, mirrorless doesn't "look" like a "real camera" (dslr), but I was blown away by the images when they came back. It isn't what the camera looks like.

I can't see myself ever wanting to go that (iPad) route, but if the photographer let the person booking them know that was what they used, I wouldn't see an issue with it. The end result is what is important.

Singing Swan

If I knew that's what they were going to use and I didn't have to wait for a photographer to set up all that equipment, then this would be okay. If I hired someone expecting them to come and set up a lot of equipment and they whipped out an iPad, I'd be livid.

If these photos were going to be printed, then, maybe not too happy, if they are only going to be shown to the family through Facebook or e-mails, then iPad is probably the way to go.

I think in this situation if the family was happy then your angst was just a little misplaced, and was more aimed at the fact that a little contraption like an iPad would even have the gall to show up where a "real camera" was expected. Yeah?? And that they got paid for something that probably involved little effort on the part of the photographer. That's the part that fires my rockets, that they can get paid for carrying around their phones and making a photo, but that's what the world is coming to no matter how much we scream about it, darn it.

I was "hired" recently to do photos for a very casual wedding. I thought they wanted some good photos. I was truly annoyed during the reception to be unable to get photos of the couple because soooooooo many of the guests were there with phones and they had to get this shot and they had to get that........ the couple was happy with what I had done for them, but all those phones..... :( :(

superpijak Loc: Middle TN

Oh yeah no doubt. Technology advances, and I'm stubborn. (There I said it, just don't repeat this to my other half.) 8-)

I can't wrap my head around composing an image with the device held at arms length, never mind the other basic items of tuning how the image is captured. Explains why I couldn't stand point and shoots with out a viewfinder.

superpijak Loc: Middle TN

I hear you swan, thanks for chiming in.....

superpijak Loc: Middle TN

I believe the family was expecting a "real camera" so to speak. They figured at the end of it all they could have just as well called their neighbor over with his smart phone. :?

bkyser Loc: Fly over country in Indiana

Hi Swan,
Not sure how many weddings you have under your belt, so I don't want to insult you.

This very thing was becoming a bigger and bigger issue. Little point and shoot cameras didn't seem to be as big of an issue, but with the advent of the smartphones and iPads...well. :evil:

When I'm being paid for a job, I have absolutely no problem with "politely" saying, "Excuse me, I need to get in front of you to get this shot, the bride and groom are paying for these photos, and I need these to be as good as possible for them."

I think sometimes we are TOO polite and don't want to disturb other people taking pictures, because we are thinking about how we would feel if someone stepped in front of us. Well, that's OK, but your duty is to the B&G.

I'm never rude with people, because the whole catching flies with sugar instead of vinegar thing is so true, but I also need to complete my assignment, and that is my main "focus" (little photography lingo for ya...HA)

bk

jaysnave Loc: Central Ohio

The inevitable is around the corner and it is not I Pads or cell phones. The next generation of video technology promises to provide the ability to capture high quality stills from video. Thus eliminating the skill needed to capture the moment or frame a great composition. One can merely find it in the video and essentially create an image from that selection. This is debated at trade shows, but I think it will happen. It makes me sad because we photographers can offer our knowledge of both our equipment coupled with people skills to get that great shot. It is getting easier for anyone to become a photographer with advances in technology.

Lighting is always an added feature we can offer, but I can see sensors developing into insanely low light capabilities where lighting can virtually be added in post. This is my Nostradamus prediction and again I hate to see it but the skill set for photography will become centered in the computer aided graphic arts. Probably about the time we are all scooting around in driverless cars.

E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada

I think we all know that in wedding photography, as well as many other fields of photography, the talent, creativity and skill levels of the photographer perhaps outweigh the importance of the equipment being employed. This means, to me, that fine work can be produced with relatively simple equipment, however, this concept needs to be qualified. The old adage of “using the right tool for the right job” is indeed the gold standard criteria for answering the question or story being discussed here. I can say, without any qualms or hesitation, that devices like cell phones and i-Pads are totally inappropriate for PROFESSIONAL wedding photography!

Rather than examining the issues of perceptions on the part of the clients and other photographers and what's “not nice for the neighbors” kinda thing; let's look at the nuts and bolts of high quality wedding photography.

Assuming that a comprehensive wedding coverage includes both formal and elegant portraits as well as journalistic fast action candids, there are critical techniques in each of theses categories that can not be accomplished with any devices other that real high quality cameras.

One of the most basic requirements to be considered when selecting a camera for portraiture and candid work is a good clear EYE-LEVEL viewing system- A VIEWFINDER! Perhaps this seems like too simple a concept to be of major importance but is is critical. In formal portraiture it is of the utmost importance that the photographer establish exact camera angles in relation to the subjects' facial and body characteristics. An image that is shot too high or low or from a position that does not show the best interpretation of the subject's face or body style can end up being distorted or poorly rendered- unflattering! Holding the device far from the photograph's eye does not facilitated this important set of techniques.

In photo journalistic work, framing and composition is important as well and holding the device at arms length or thereabout is awkward and does not allow for decent composition, especially in fast shooting scenarios. Excess ambient light striking the screen or viewing the screen at an oblique angle can be problematic as well. Of course, there are occasions when we need to “shoot blind” by holding the camera overhead but that is a time honored skill set in itself. Even in the olden days of medium format film cameras; the mandatory feature or accessory was as prism viewfinder to address all of the aforementioned issues and techniques. Even a rangefinder camera was preferable to a reflex model with a waist level viewing system- many TLRs were equipped with a sports-finder for theses reasons. Besides everything else, it was important for the photographer to clearly see the subjects' expression at or a millisecond before the actual exposure to avoid bad expressions and closed eyes.

No doubt, surprisingly enough, some of the image quality that is now obtainable from cell phone cameras and other communications devices is rather impressive but megapixel counts alone are not the most important technical requirements of a “wedding camera”. There is a long list of features and requirements that are just not there in terms of high quality and aesthetically pleasing results: Sophisticated multiple lighting and fill light usage, interchangeable lenses that go beyond popular cell phone zoom capabilities, complete manual control over f/stops and shutter speeds, precise depth of field control, high capacity memory cards and much more.

I am sure that there will be amazing technical developments in photography in the future. Good still fror video footage is not far off. Perhaps, some day there will be robotic cameras that can cover weddings so we can stay home every weekend and enjoy time with our families. Maybe some day there will be a chip that a can be implanted in a photographer's tooth and relay data to a remote recorder that will capture all the images that he or she “sees”! It may sound silly now but who knows! The present fact is, however, that we must address out current requirements with equipment and materials that exist today!

My advice is simple enough. Fine wedding photography in any style can be successfully accomplished with a decent DSLR and some good pro quality lighting gear. One does not need a super-uber-top-of- the-line camera with GPS and just about being capable of brewing their coffee in the morning. In fact, too many gadgets and features can lead to more mistakes, erroneous settings and grater breakdown potential such as premature battery drain. Investing in spare equipment is more prudent that putting all one's eggs in one basket by buying an outrageously expensive camera. Even the best and most expensive cameras and lenses, brand new and out of the box, have been known to breakdown at the most inopportune times during a critical wedding coverage. The same applies to basic lighting gear.

I love my cell phone too- it makes great telephone calls!

As far as amateur interference issues at weddings; well- it's been around for time immemorial and will be with us forever! The cell-phone camera and “selfies” craze has exacerbated the problem exponentially to epidemic proportions- it's obnoxious to say the least and it ain't going away any time soon! I don;t want to be the dictator or spoil sport at weddings but I do prohibit some of this activity in my wedding contracts whereby I have the permission of the bride and groom to curb some of this if or when I deem this to be detrimental to my performance. It sounds nasty but I need to explain gently and politely the philosophy that “money talks and BS walks! The are paying me good money to do my job and that is more important than Uncle Herman and Aunt Matilda darting in from of my camera or distracting folks during the formal session by shootin over my shoulder. Most smart couples do not want to sabotage their own well paid photographer- it makes no sense. All of this is addressed well before the wedding day- the word gets out to the family shutterbugs and things usually go well. I have not really had to “enforce” my contractual rules in the longest time. I want folks to have a good time with there cell phone cameras and their real cameras- I am very good at polite crowed control. I find that most of the guests are keen to cooperate for the benefit of the couple having a perfect wedding album. Enlisting cooperation and garnering good PR is part of the jon- it comes with the territory!

Ed

superpijak Loc: Middle TN

Amen Ed, I always value your inputs. :thumbup:

superpijak Loc: Middle TN

You all will be proud of me. My daughter got married just this past May, (and no I did not do the shoot) and I had to play "gentle" enforcer to keep the smart phones at bay. ( well at least I managed to keep them seated) Even got my mother in law to sit back down.

:-D

bkyser Loc: Fly over country in Indiana

:thumbup: respect! :thumbup:

Singing Swan

Good for you. The one I did was very very informal, they are young and well...you know the rest of that saying......

They held the event in their home, I'd already made the 'fancy shots' they wanted from me, really. That's what they asked me for, they got what they wanted and I got practice and money.... What more can I ask for??

They were so happy with themselves during the reception and the family was too caught up in the event for me to really make a difference, and I would have been a big intrusion at that point if I had tried. They were happily posing together for Aunt and Uncle and Best Friend who wanted shots of them, so I fell to the back, found good spots, (we were outdoors after all, yeah) and took advantage. Who knows, But, it was annoying to have so many trying to do my work - - but I let them and when it was all said and done, the couple was happy. I gave them sots of Uncle Jerry squinting at his phone, Aunt Bethany pinching the cheeks; they seamlessly arranged themselves into groups they wanted shots of, which in turn made Uncle and Aunt put away their phones and be unplugged for a few minutes :) so I made the shots and it was so much easier that way because I had no idea which person was the father and which was his current wife who under no circumstances was going to be in a photo with him -- it was bad enough she was minding her manners and attending the wedding!!!! :) And even though they looked like sisters, they weren't.

I have no misconceptions that I will EVER be a pro photographer anything, but listening to those of you who do this professionally and handle the "public" like this on a constant basis, enabled ME, when I was approached as a photographer and asked to do this, to tackle it with some good sense, and to give them photos they could be very happy with. It wasn't studio work, it wasn't even formal work, but I can say that it was good work!!

And it was NOT one of those weddings where I felt this was above my skill level. Listening to good advice I know better than to even think about doing something formal, but as a beginner, I think most of you would have at least given me a nod of approval :) The couple gave me dollars :) :) :) :)